To tube or not to tube

What do people run for pressure with tubeless?  I have tubes and I run about 28-30psi.  I'm about 170+ lbs and I'm not a finesse rider and I hardly ever get flats - maybe a couple a season.  Not enough to make me go tubelsss just for that reason.  Are there other advantages? Would I run lower pressure with tubeless?

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Advantage of tubeless:

- less pinch flats

- potentially lower rotating mass esp if you do the stans conversion, UST tires are generally heavier than their tubed counter parts so that can negate any positive effect there.

 Advantages of tubes:

- Like Nimz said, tear a side wall and you'd better hope you're carrying a tube...

- Less messy if you run the goo and change tires often.

Like you I generally don't get flats, except recently with the HT , running stupid low pressures then forgetting its a hard tail and pounding into stuff results in that psssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Other than that I don't really care one way or the other...

i remember a ride day at wentworth. right under the lift at the top there was this rock that took out both tubed and tubeless riders like there was no tommorow. later on there was more tubed people back up and running, than there was tubeless. i'll lean towards the tubed side.

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Thats the funny thing, what matters is the contact patch size, not the pressure, its just that most people work in pressure because contact patch area is a bit hard to measure.

As the tire stiffness is reduced you need more air pressure to make up the difference in overall deflection which results in the same contact patch area...

Whats interesting is that a tire that needs more pressure to acheive teh same contact patch means that its less stiff, and therefore has less friction due to deflection, which is what largely contributes to lower rolling resistance.

I weigh 165 and run 23-25 psi.  Tubed I run 30ish.  It is also said to result in less rolling resistance based on the absence of the tube, regardless of weight, take it for what you will.

Yeah, the hype is that there is friction between the tube and tire casing. In addition to lower resistance, the ride is more supple. I usually use 15-20 in the front and 20-30 in the rear in 2.1s

I'm doing the ghetto conversion in the coming weeks with Stan's sealant and strips (sealant is home, strips on the way) on 317 rims. Looking forward to giving it a try; albeit, the initial install looks like pain to do!

I was running 30-35psi (depending of conditions) with tubes before, hoping to run 25-27 without.

Just to be clear, using the stans strips is not the "ghetto tubeless" method. Ghetto tubeless uses a 20" tube cut down the outside to form the rimstrip. If you are halfway capeable with working on bkes, setting up tubeless should be relatively easy.

Thanks for the clarification. By being a pain, I didn't mean difficult, I meant by more time consuming... per the steps on the Stan's videos: Drill, deburr, add strip, inflate tire to ensure it seats properly, deflate and add liquid, re-inflate, lay-down to seal one side, pancake over, seal the other side, back and forth under it's fully sealed. I realize that's only the first time. That's what I meant.

I haven't had a flat in 7 years with Mavic rims and UST tires. I still carry a tube, of course. I'm not exactly sure the pressure I run - I suspect it's a bit lower than with tubes but the feel is way better and no pinch flats.

So... the Stan's strips arrived on Friday, was stoked for the big conversion on Saturday, but appears that it went downhill rather quickly - doh!!

First, I started with the front wheel...

I realized that I don't have a 3/8 drill bit at home, biggest was 11/32.

Swapped the OE rubber rim strip in-lieu for the Stan's nylon tape.

Installed tubeless strip per instructions.

Recessed the strip below the bead hook all around, except that it doesn't work as well at valve stem as I would have liked... figured that I try installing the tire to see if it hooks on.

Mounted OE Racing Ralph (wire bead) tire, doing the tapping, soapy water, etc., but can't get it to inflate with the floor pump.

Removed valve core, but can't get the pump head to latch on to valve stem without it...

Reinstalled valve core, removed tire and mounted an Ignitor (kevlar bead) tire instead. I was convinced it was going to work since the bead was resting on rim all around really well. Pumped, pumped, pumped... holding the tire at the valve, ... nothing worked!

It was then getting late in the afternoon, so I gave up... Removed the tire, tubeless strip and re-mounted RR's using tubes for now.

The pump is a 5-year Wrench Force model.

I'm now considering picking up a Compressor.

I learned the hard way that a tubeless tire burp at the wrong moment can cause trouble. I am running Stans in Nevegals, 18 psi front; 22 psi rear (I weigh about 145 lbs; these tire pressures were set to keep the outer knobs just off the floor/trail). While recently cornering (fast), I may have wandered to the inside "ridge" of the trail; the front sidewall then appeared to have burped, and the tire must have rolled laterally, and I augered my face into the turf. Once I spit out the debris, I noted the tires still contained air, though were very soft. The beads were still in place, but now had small roots and turf trapped in the apparent "burp" area.

This incident has left me, along with a few face abrasions, wondering if my relatively low tire pressure is a problem. Or was it bad luck (or perhaps a bad line on the corner...). Wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience. I really like the tubeless performance, but would like to figure out if something needs tweaking...

From the description on Stans website:
"The Solution can be used year round, even in sub freezing temperatures..."

From the MSDS sheet on Stans website:
"Melting or freezing point: 32°f "

From Stans message board (No-Tubes Pete comment):
"We manufacture the sealant here in upstate NY so we deal with sub frezzing threw most of the winter. It is good to -30 F "

I expect to have my first experience with Stans at low temps this fall...